Discussion:
2006 Retrospective Results
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huzonfirst@comcast.net [spielfrieks]
2017-08-14 20:25:22 UTC
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The 2006 Retrospective is history—literally! 54 folks participated. As I predicted, there was a change from our original selections, but the shift wasn’t nearly as dramatic as I thought it would be. And the game that wound up leading the voting was shocking, at least to me. So let’s check out the results. Here’s the top 10, with the vote totals listed, along with the game’s original rank in parentheses:



1. Thurn and Taxis – 23 (2)

2. Through the Ages – 21 (4)

3. Blue Moon City – 11 (1)

4. The Pillars of the Earth – 9 (6)

4. Yspahan – 9 (2)

6. Canal Mania – 7 (5)

6. Mr. Jack – 7 (19)

6. On the Underground – 7 (13)

6. To Court the King – 7 (13)

10. Imperial – 6 (7)

10. Taluva – 6 (17)



So be honest: how many of you thought that Thurn and Taxis would beat out Through the Ages? I certainly didn’t! I didn’t even realize that Thurn was still that popular! But there you have it. At least TtA finished among the top 3 this time, to make up for it just missing out during the original election, when only a limited number of people had had a chance to play it. Overall, though, not too much change in our opinions over the last 10 years. Mr. Jack made a nice move and I was a bit surprised that Imperial lost a little ground; I thought it might move up. But not too much shifting around.



Of the new games, Shogun and Traders of Carthage wound up tying for 12th. BattleLore and Mykerinos were top 10 games the first time around that dropped significantly, both getting only a single vote. I doubt that many of you find either of those drops too surprising. I was more surprised that C&C: Ancients also got only one vote. Maybe it’s been superceded by other C&C titles.



You can check out how each game did, together with who voted for them, on the app. Only 2 of the 31 nominated games got shut out: Cleopatra and Tempus.



So what about you? Did you think that Through the Ages might not finish on top? Comments welcome!


Larry
Fritz mpefritz@yahoo.com [spielfrieks]
2017-08-14 20:30:59 UTC
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Through the Ages not winning??!?!?!
I think the problem was the butterfly ballot and people could not figure out if they were voting for Thurn and Taxis or Through the Ages.
I demand a recount. well, at least for all ballots with hanging chads.

no..seriously..what?  How?


From: "***@comcast.net [spielfrieks]" <***@yahoogroups.com>
To: ***@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, August 14, 2017 3:25 PM
Subject: [spielfrieks] 2006 Retrospective Results

  The 2006Retrospective is history—literally!  54folks participated.  As I predicted,there was a change from our original selections, but the shift wasn’t nearly asdramatic as I thought it would be.  Andthe game that wound up leading the voting was shocking, at least to me.  So let’s check out the results.  Here’s the top 10, with the vote totalslisted, along with the game’s original rank in parentheses: 1. Thurnand Taxis – 23 (2)2. Throughthe Ages – 21 (4)3. BlueMoon City – 11 (1)4. ThePillars of the Earth – 9 (6)4. Yspahan– 9 (2)6. CanalMania – 7 (5)6. Mr.Jack – 7 (19)6. On theUnderground – 7 (13)6. ToCourt the King – 7 (13)10. Imperial– 6 (7)10. Taluva– 6 (17) So behonest:  how many of you thought thatThurn and Taxis would beat out Through the Ages?  I certainly didn’t!  I didn’t even realize that Thurn was stillthat popular!  But there you haveit.  At least TtA finished among the top3 this time, to make up for it just missing out during the original election,when only a limited number of people had had a chance to play it.  Overall, though, not too much change in ouropinions over the last 10 years.  Mr.Jack made a nice move and I was a bit surprised that Imperial lost a littleground; I thought it might move up.  Butnot too much shifting around. Of thenew games, Shogun and Traders of Carthage wound up tying for 12th.  BattleLore and Mykerinos were top 10 gamesthe first time around that dropped significantly, both getting only a singlevote.  I doubt that many of you findeither of those drops too surprising.  Iwas more surprised that C&C: Ancients also got only one vote.  Maybe it’s been superceded by other C&Ctitles. You can checkout how each game did, together with who voted for them, on the app.  Only 2 of the 31 nominated games got shut out:  Cleopatra and Tempus. So what aboutyou?  Did you think that Through the Agesmight not finish on top?  Commentswelcome!
Larry #yiv8282006026 #yiv8282006026 -- #yiv8282006026ygrp-mkp {border:1px solid #d8d8d8;font-family:Arial;margin:10px 0;padding:0 10px;}#yiv8282006026 #yiv8282006026ygrp-mkp hr {border:1px solid #d8d8d8;}#yiv8282006026 #yiv8282006026ygrp-mkp #yiv8282006026hd {color:#628c2a;font-size:85%;font-weight:700;line-height:122%;margin:10px 0;}#yiv8282006026 #yiv8282006026ygrp-mkp #yiv8282006026ads {margin-bottom:10px;}#yiv8282006026 #yiv8282006026ygrp-mkp .yiv8282006026ad {padding:0 0;}#yiv8282006026 #yiv8282006026ygrp-mkp .yiv8282006026ad p {margin:0;}#yiv8282006026 #yiv8282006026ygrp-mkp .yiv8282006026ad a {color:#0000ff;text-decoration:none;}#yiv8282006026 #yiv8282006026ygrp-sponsor #yiv8282006026ygrp-lc {font-family:Arial;}#yiv8282006026 #yiv8282006026ygrp-sponsor #yiv8282006026ygrp-lc #yiv8282006026hd {margin:10px 0px;font-weight:700;font-size:78%;line-height:122%;}#yiv8282006026 #yiv8282006026ygrp-sponsor #yiv8282006026ygrp-lc .yiv8282006026ad {margin-bottom:10px;padding:0 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Chris Lemon clemon79@outlook.com [spielfrieks]
2017-08-14 21:36:47 UTC
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Through The Ages is complicated and long. Not everyone likes complicated and long.

From: ***@yahoogroups.com [mailto:***@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Monday, August 14, 2017 1:31 PM
To: ***@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [spielfrieks] 2006 Retrospective Results


Through the Ages not winning??!?!?!

I think the problem was the butterfly ballot and people could not figure out if they were voting for Thurn and Taxis or Through the Ages.

I demand a recount. well, at least for all ballots with hanging chads.

no..seriously..what? How?

________________________________
From: "***@comcast.net [spielfrieks]<mailto:***@comcast.net%20[spielfrieks]>" <***@yahoogroups.com<mailto:***@yahoogroups.com>>
To: ***@yahoogroups.com<mailto:***@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, August 14, 2017 3:25 PM
Subject: [spielfrieks] 2006 Retrospective Results


The 2006 Retrospective is history—literally! 54 folks participated. As I predicted, there was a change from our original selections, but the shift wasn’t nearly as dramatic as I thought it would be. And the game that wound up leading the voting was shocking, at least to me. So let’s check out the results. Here’s the top 10, with the vote totals listed, along with the game’s original rank in parentheses:

1. Thurn and Taxis – 23 (2)
2. Through the Ages – 21 (4)
3. Blue Moon City – 11 (1)
4. The Pillars of the Earth – 9 (6)
4. Yspahan – 9 (2)
6. Canal Mania – 7 (5)
6. Mr. Jack – 7 (19)
6. On the Underground – 7 (13)
6. To Court the King – 7 (13)
10. Imperial – 6 (7)
10. Taluva – 6 (17)

So be honest: how many of you thought that Thurn and Taxis would beat out Through the Ages? I certainly didn’t! I didn’t even realize that Thurn was still that popular! But there you have it. At least TtA finished among the top 3 this time, to make up for it just missing out during the original election, when only a limited number of people had had a chance to play it. Overall, though, not too much change in our opinions over the last 10 years. Mr. Jack made a nice move and I was a bit surprised that Imperial lost a little ground; I thought it might move up. But not too much shifting around.

Of the new games, Shogun and Traders of Carthage wound up tying for 12th. BattleLore and Mykerinos were top 10 games the first time around that dropped significantly, both getting only a single vote. I doubt that many of you find either of those drops too surprising. I was more surprised that C&C: Ancients also got only one vote. Maybe it’s been superceded by other C&C titles.

You can check out how each game did, together with who voted for them, on the app. Only 2 of the 31 nominated games got shut out: Cleopatra and Tempus.

So what about you? Did you think that Through the Ages might not finish on top? Comments welcome!

Larry
Jacob Lee jacobjslee@gmail.com [spielfrieks]
2017-08-14 22:47:32 UTC
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I am surprised, too. I would like to sit down and play TtA right now . . .
but the thought of teaching it to new people doesn't appeal to me. I'd
rather play Thurn and Taxis in that case. So maybe I shouldn't be
surprised?

Jacob
Post by Chris Lemon ***@outlook.com [spielfrieks]
Through The Ages is complicated and long. Not everyone likes complicated and long.
*Sent:* Monday, August 14, 2017 1:31 PM
*Subject:* Re: [spielfrieks] 2006 Retrospective Results
Through the Ages not winning??!?!?!
I think the problem was the butterfly ballot and people could not figure
out if they were voting for Thurn and Taxis or Through the Ages.
I demand a recount. well, at least for all ballots with hanging chads.
no..seriously..what? How?
------------------------------
*Sent:* Monday, August 14, 2017 3:25 PM
*Subject:* [spielfrieks] 2006 Retrospective Results
The 2006 Retrospective is history—literally! 54 folks participated. As I
predicted, there was a change from our original selections, but the shift
wasn’t nearly as dramatic as I thought it would be. And the game that
wound up leading the voting was shocking, at least to me. So let’s check
out the results. Here’s the top 10, with the vote totals listed, along
1. Thurn and Taxis – 23 (2)
2. Through the Ages – 21 (4)
3. Blue Moon City – 11 (1)
4. The Pillars of the Earth – 9 (6)
4. Yspahan – 9 (2)
6. Canal Mania – 7 (5)
6. Mr. Jack – 7 (19)
6. On the Underground – 7 (13)
6. To Court the King – 7 (13)
10. Imperial – 6 (7)
10. Taluva – 6 (17)
So be honest: how many of you thought that Thurn and Taxis would beat out
Through the Ages? I certainly didn’t! I didn’t even realize that Thurn
was still that popular! But there you have it. At least TtA finished
among the top 3 this time, to make up for it just missing out during the
original election, when only a limited number of people had had a chance to
play it. Overall, though, not too much change in our opinions over the
last 10 years. Mr. Jack made a nice move and I was a bit surprised that
Imperial lost a little ground; I thought it might move up. But not too
much shifting around.
Of the new games, Shogun and Traders of Carthage wound up tying for 12th.
BattleLore and Mykerinos were top 10 games the first time around that
dropped significantly, both getting only a single vote. I doubt that many
of you find either of those drops too surprising. I was more surprised
that C&C: Ancients also got only one vote. Maybe it’s been superceded by
other C&C titles.
You can check out how each game did, together with who voted for them, on
the app. Only 2 of the 31 nominated games got shut out: Cleopatra and
Tempus.
So what about you? Did you think that Through the Ages might not finish
on top? Comments welcome!
Larry
huzonfirst@comcast.net [spielfrieks]
2017-08-15 01:59:48 UTC
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Post by Chris Lemon ***@outlook.com [spielfrieks]
Through The Ages is complicated and long. Not everyone likes complicated and long.
Agreed, although the fact that the Geek considers TtA to be one of the most popular games of all time means that enough folks liked this long complicated game to ensure it would do well. What I'm more surprised about is how extraordinarily well Thurn and Taxis did in the balloting. It's been over 5 years since I've seen anyone play it. I think it's still a pretty good 2-player game, but I honestly thought that time had passed it by. Evidently not. Yet another fun fact I've gleaned from these retrospectives.


Larry
Paul Sauberer paul.sauberer@gmail.com [spielfrieks]
2017-08-15 02:52:20 UTC
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I played Thurn & Taxis in June. I haven't played TtA for at least 8 years.
That's more a reflection of my taste and opportunities than anything else,
I think.

Paul Sauberer
Post by Chris Lemon ***@outlook.com [spielfrieks]
Through The Ages is complicated and long. Not everyone likes complicated
and long.
Agreed, although the fact that the Geek considers TtA to be one of the most
popular games of all time means that enough folks liked this long
complicated game to ensure it would do well. What I'm more surprised about
is how extraordinarily well Thurn and Taxis did in the balloting. It's
been over 5 years since I've seen anyone play it. I think it's still a
pretty good 2-player game, but I honestly thought that time had passed it
by. Evidently not. Yet another fun fact I've gleaned from these
retrospectives.


Larry
richard@trouty.com [spielfrieks]
2017-08-15 03:05:05 UTC
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Post by Chris Lemon ***@outlook.com [spielfrieks]
Through The Ages is complicated and long. Not everyone likes complicated
and long.
Agreed, although the fact that the Geek considers TtA to be one of the most popular games of all time means that enough folks liked this long complicated game to ensure it would do well. What I'm more surprised about is how extraordinarily well Thurn and Taxis did in the balloting.




The Geek ratings seems to favour Heavy/Longer games over those able to be played more frequently (and the cult of the new/kickstarter). It's a pity its so hard to dig out what is being played/logged on the geek.


Now, off to find someone with Thurn & Taxis for a game :-)
Wei-Hwa Huang onigame@gmail.com [spielfrieks]
2017-08-15 05:33:56 UTC
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Post by ***@trouty.com [spielfrieks]
The Geek ratings seems to favour Heavy/Longer games over those able to be played more frequently (and the cult of the new/kickstarter). It's a pity its so hard to dig out what is being played/logged on the geek.
My unsubstantiated theory is that people who like Heavy/Longer games
generally have played the shorter games and have decided to give them
lower ratings, whereas people who don't like Heavy/Longer games
generally haven't played them and are therefore less likely to rate
them at all.
--
Wei-Hwa Huang, ***@gmail.com
-----------------------------------------------------------
Verbing nouns may weird language, but nouning verbs is a language destroy.
Clay Blankenship clay.blankenship@gmail.com [spielfrieks]
2017-08-15 13:51:36 UTC
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Post by ***@trouty.com [spielfrieks]
Post by ***@trouty.com [spielfrieks]
The Geek ratings seems to favour Heavy/Longer games over those able to
be played more frequently (and the cult of the new/kickstarter). It's a
pity its so hard to dig out what is being played/logged on the geek.
My unsubstantiated theory is that people who like Heavy/Longer games
generally have played the shorter games and have decided to give them
lower ratings, whereas people who don't like Heavy/Longer games
generally haven't played them and are therefore less likely to rate
them at all.
That theory would predict that heavier games would have higher ratings in
general, but, perhaps, be less likely to win awards based on popular vote
(such as this one). (The Golden Geeks being an exception since it only
compares votes between games when players have played both, if I remember
the details correctly.)

Personally, I think Through the Ages is a much more fun and interesting
game than Thurn and Taxis. But I've played the latter more (because my
wife likes it).
--
Clay Blankenship ***@gmail.com
"Life is either a daring adventure or nothing." --Helen Keller
Wei-Hwa Huang onigame@gmail.com [spielfrieks]
2017-08-15 20:13:32 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
There's also the potential effect that some people are not comfortable with
rating a game that they've only played a few times, and Heavy/Longer games
tend to not get played as much.

For example, I've only played Panamax once. It was a horrible 8-hour
experience, but I'm not willing to give the game a BGG rating because I'm
not confident how much of that horribleness was the other players and how
much was the game. But the experience also taught me that I'm going to
have to be really picky as to who I play the game with for my second time
-- and as a result I haven't played it a second time.
Post by Clay Blankenship ***@gmail.com [spielfrieks]
Post by ***@trouty.com [spielfrieks]
Post by ***@trouty.com [spielfrieks]
The Geek ratings seems to favour Heavy/Longer games over those able to
be played more frequently (and the cult of the new/kickstarter). It's a
pity its so hard to dig out what is being played/logged on the geek.
My unsubstantiated theory is that people who like Heavy/Longer games
generally have played the shorter games and have decided to give them
lower ratings, whereas people who don't like Heavy/Longer games
generally haven't played them and are therefore less likely to rate
them at all.
That theory would predict that heavier games would have higher ratings in
general, but, perhaps, be less likely to win awards based on popular vote
(such as this one). (The Golden Geeks being an exception since it only
compares votes between games when players have played both, if I remember
the details correctly.)
Personally, I think Through the Ages is a much more fun and interesting
game than Thurn and Taxis. But I've played the latter more (because my
wife likes it).
--
"Life is either a daring adventure or nothing." --Helen Keller
--
Wei-Hwa Huang, ***@gmail.com
-----------------------------------------------------------
Verbing nouns may weird language, but nouning verbs is a language destroy.
Lucas Hedgren lucashedgren@gmail.com [spielfrieks]
2017-08-15 20:43:31 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
8!? Oof.
Post by Wei-Hwa Huang ***@gmail.com [spielfrieks]
There's also the potential effect that some people are not comfortable
with rating a game that they've only played a few times, and Heavy/Longer
games tend to not get played as much.
For example, I've only played Panamax once. It was a horrible 8-hour
experience, but I'm not willing to give the game a BGG rating because I'm
not confident how much of that horribleness was the other players and how
much was the game. But the experience also taught me that I'm going to
have to be really picky as to who I play the game with for my second time
-- and as a result I haven't played it a second time.
On Tue, Aug 15, 2017 at 6:51 AM, Clay Blankenship
Post by ***@trouty.com [spielfrieks]
Post by ***@trouty.com [spielfrieks]
The Geek ratings seems to favour Heavy/Longer games over those able to
be played more frequently (and the cult of the new/kickstarter). It's a
pity its so hard to dig out what is being played/logged on the geek.
My unsubstantiated theory is that people who like Heavy/Longer games
generally have played the shorter games and have decided to give them
lower ratings, whereas people who don't like Heavy/Longer games
generally haven't played them and are therefore less likely to rate
them at all.
That theory would predict that heavier games would have higher ratings
in general, but, perhaps, be less likely to win awards based on popular
vote (such as this one). (The Golden Geeks being an exception since it
only compares votes between games when players have played both, if I
remember the details correctly.)
Personally, I think Through the Ages is a much more fun and interesting
game than Thurn and Taxis. But I've played the latter more (because my
wife likes it).
--
"Life is either a daring adventure or nothing." --Helen Keller
--
-----------------------------------------------------------
Verbing nouns may weird language, but nouning verbs is a language destroy.
Tedcheatham tedcheatham@gmail.com [spielfrieks]
2017-08-15 21:01:30 UTC
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Raw Message
I cannot see an 8 hour Panamax. I enjoyed the game, got my fill, and finally sold it. 3-4 hours was my time of play.

Ted Cheatham
Post by Lucas Hedgren ***@gmail.com [spielfrieks]
8!? Oof.
There's also the potential effect that some people are not comfortable with rating a game that they've only played a few times, and Heavy/Longer games tend to not get played as much.
For example, I've only played Panamax once. It was a horrible 8-hour experience, but I'm not willing to give the game a BGG rating because I'm not confident how much of that horribleness was the other players and how much was the game. But the experience also taught me that I'm going to have to be really picky as to who I play the game with for my second time -- and as a result I haven't played it a second time.
Post by Wei-Hwa Huang ***@gmail.com [spielfrieks]
Post by ***@trouty.com [spielfrieks]
The Geek ratings seems to favour Heavy/Longer games over those able to be played more frequently (and the cult of the new/kickstarter). It's a pity its so hard to dig out what is being played/logged on the geek.
My unsubstantiated theory is that people who like Heavy/Longer games
generally have played the shorter games and have decided to give them
lower ratings, whereas people who don't like Heavy/Longer games
generally haven't played them and are therefore less likely to rate
them at all.
That theory would predict that heavier games would have higher ratings in general, but, perhaps, be less likely to win awards based on popular vote (such as this one). (The Golden Geeks being an exception since it only compares votes between games when players have played both, if I remember the details correctly.)
Personally, I think Through the Ages is a much more fun and interesting game than Thurn and Taxis. But I've played the latter more (because my wife likes it).
--
"Life is either a daring adventure or nothing." --Helen Keller
--
-----------------------------------------------------------
Verbing nouns may weird language, but nouning verbs is a language destroy.
Brian Frahm brian.frahm@gmail.com [spielfrieks]
2017-08-15 20:53:12 UTC
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Raw Message
A bad game of Panamax would be over 3 hours long. But 8 hours? something
went wrong, really wrong...
Post by Lucas Hedgren ***@gmail.com [spielfrieks]
8!? Oof.
Post by Wei-Hwa Huang ***@gmail.com [spielfrieks]
There's also the potential effect that some people are not comfortable
with rating a game that they've only played a few times, and Heavy/Longer
games tend to not get played as much.
For example, I've only played Panamax once. It was a horrible 8-hour
experience, but I'm not willing to give the game a BGG rating because I'm
not confident how much of that horribleness was the other players and how
much was the game. But the experience also taught me that I'm going to
have to be really picky as to who I play the game with for my second time
-- and as a result I haven't played it a second time.
On Tue, Aug 15, 2017 at 6:51 AM, Clay Blankenship
Post by ***@trouty.com [spielfrieks]
Post by ***@trouty.com [spielfrieks]
The Geek ratings seems to favour Heavy/Longer games over those able
to be played more frequently (and the cult of the new/kickstarter). It's a
pity its so hard to dig out what is being played/logged on the geek.
My unsubstantiated theory is that people who like Heavy/Longer games
generally have played the shorter games and have decided to give them
lower ratings, whereas people who don't like Heavy/Longer games
generally haven't played them and are therefore less likely to rate
them at all.
That theory would predict that heavier games would have higher ratings
in general, but, perhaps, be less likely to win awards based on popular
vote (such as this one). (The Golden Geeks being an exception since it
only compares votes between games when players have played both, if I
remember the details correctly.)
Personally, I think Through the Ages is a much more fun and interesting
game than Thurn and Taxis. But I've played the latter more (because my
wife likes it).
--
"Life is either a daring adventure or nothing." --Helen Keller
--
-----------------------------------------------------------
Verbing nouns may weird language, but nouning verbs is a language destroy.
--
*Brian Frahm*
Mark Johnson markejohnson66@gmail.com [spielfrieks]
2017-08-15 01:41:48 UTC
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Raw Message
I like TtA well enough (played online where the downtime or bookkeeping
isn't a problem), but Thurn & Taxis is a SdJ-worthy gem, in my book. Love
it.
Post by Chris Lemon ***@outlook.com [spielfrieks]
Through The Ages is complicated and long. Not everyone likes complicated and long.
*Sent:* Monday, August 14, 2017 1:31 PM
*Subject:* Re: [spielfrieks] 2006 Retrospective Results
Through the Ages not winning??!?!?!
I think the problem was the butterfly ballot and people could not figure
out if they were voting for Thurn and Taxis or Through the Ages.
I demand a recount. well, at least for all ballots with hanging chads.
no..seriously..what? How?
------------------------------
*Sent:* Monday, August 14, 2017 3:25 PM
*Subject:* [spielfrieks] 2006 Retrospective Results
The 2006 Retrospective is history—literally! 54 folks participated. As I
predicted, there was a change from our original selections, but the shift
wasn’t nearly as dramatic as I thought it would be. And the game that
wound up leading the voting was shocking, at least to me. So let’s check
out the results. Here’s the top 10, with the vote totals listed, along
1. Thurn and Taxis – 23 (2)
2. Through the Ages – 21 (4)
3. Blue Moon City – 11 (1)
4. The Pillars of the Earth – 9 (6)
4. Yspahan – 9 (2)
6. Canal Mania – 7 (5)
6. Mr. Jack – 7 (19)
6. On the Underground – 7 (13)
6. To Court the King – 7 (13)
10. Imperial – 6 (7)
10. Taluva – 6 (17)
So be honest: how many of you thought that Thurn and Taxis would beat out
Through the Ages? I certainly didn’t! I didn’t even realize that Thurn
was still that popular! But there you have it. At least TtA finished
among the top 3 this time, to make up for it just missing out during the
original election, when only a limited number of people had had a chance to
play it. Overall, though, not too much change in our opinions over the
last 10 years. Mr. Jack made a nice move and I was a bit surprised that
Imperial lost a little ground; I thought it might move up. But not too
much shifting around.
Of the new games, Shogun and Traders of Carthage wound up tying for 12th.
BattleLore and Mykerinos were top 10 games the first time around that
dropped significantly, both getting only a single vote. I doubt that many
of you find either of those drops too surprising. I was more surprised
that C&C: Ancients also got only one vote. Maybe it’s been superceded by
other C&C titles.
You can check out how each game did, together with who voted for them, on
the app. Only 2 of the 31 nominated games got shut out: Cleopatra and
Tempus.
So what about you? Did you think that Through the Ages might not finish
on top? Comments welcome!
Larry
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